Plan B’s Dede Gardner: “Form is as Important as Narrative”
The Oscar-winning producer discusses Plan B’s unique approach to filmmaking, working with international directors, and balancing art and commerce at Berlinale 2025
In the bustling atmosphere of Berlinale 2025, I had the privilege of sitting down with Dede Gardner, the Oscar-winning producer and co-president of Plan B Entertainment, just hours before the premiere of “Mickey 17,” their latest collaboration with director Bong Joon-ho. As the company celebrates its 22nd year in the industry, Gardner reflects on their journey from independent filmmaking to becoming one of the most respected production companies in Hollywood, all while maintaining their commitment to director-driven, narrative-focused cinema.
The Evolution of Storytelling
“I don’t know that our taste has changed so much as we are constantly interested in evaluating how narrative and form can intertwine,” Gardner explains when asked about Plan B‘s evolution over the years. “Maybe more than ever, form is as important as narrative.”
She cites their latest Oscar-nominated film “Nickel Boys,” directed by RaMell Ross, as a prime example. Based on Colson Whitehead’s novel, Gardner describes the book as having “a kind of jujitsu move at the end” that required a filmmaker who could protect this narrative device through their formal approach.
“Not only does the story need to get told, but the filmmaking has to meet it halfway and be in service of this extraordinary thing that Colson Whitehead does in the book,” she says.
This attention to form has become a hallmark of Plan B’s productions, from Barry Jenkins’ “Moonlight” to “Women Talking” and now “Nickel Boys.”
Finding New Voices
When it comes to discovering talent, Gardner’s approach is refreshingly straightforward: “You just watch and watch and you read also… But that’s the most fun, to just watch as much as you can and read as much as you can.”
This curiosity-driven approach has led Plan B to work with an impressive range of filmmakers, from established directors like Bong Joon-ho to emerging talents. Gardner credits Brad Pitt‘s cinephilia as an essential part of the company’s talent discovery process: “Brad’s also a true cinephile. We’ll say ‘have you seen this and this?’ And he’ll say, ‘Yeah, but I also saw their first movie.’ And you’re like, ‘What? How, when, where?'”
The company has developed a reputation for cultivating relationships with directors over time. Gardner recalls seeing RaMell Ross’s documentary “Hale County This Morning, This Evening” and thinking, “This is a whole other way of telling a story. How could that possibly be applicable to scripted films?” Years later, that insight led them to pair Ross with the adaptation of “Nickel Boys.”
The Inside-Out Approach
What distinguishes Plan B from other production companies is their method of developing projects. Gardner emphasises that they don’t start with external factors like marketability or political messaging.
“We don’t bake it from the outside in,” she insists. “We don’t say, ‘Oh, let’s go make a movie that is about this subject matter.’ We always come at it from the inside out, which is narratively speaking first.”
This inside-out approach has nonetheless resulted in films that often engage with pressing social and political issues, from “12 Years a Slave” to “She Said,” their 2022 film about the New York Times investigation into Harvey Weinstein.
“Over time, a particular musculature or organising system has revealed itself, but it’s never been something we’ve assigned ourselves as a task,” Gardner reflects. “I follow my heart and I’m interested in what I read. It drives you places, but I don’t put it on a whiteboard and think, ‘Let’s go find a story about X.'”
The Global Perspective
Plan B’s roster of collaborators reflects a decidedly international outlook. From Bong Joon-ho (“Mickey 17,” “Okja”) to Felix Van Groeningen (“Beautiful Boy”) and María Schrader (“She Said”), the company regularly works with directors from outside the United States.
When asked about this trend, Gardner explains: “I think the conditions in which I’m interested are human conditions and not nationally driven ones necessarily. I want to try and hold out the idea that they’re human first.”
This perspective extends to their production approach as well. For “She Said,” Gardner specifically sought a non-American director: “My instinct was to bring a slightly different perspective and just ensure that we’re holding the lens as open as possible.”
This international sensibility is evident in Plan B’s current Berlinale lineup. In addition to “Mickey 17,” they’re premiering “Olmo,” directed by Mexican filmmaker Fernando Eimbcke. The film, described by Gardner as “incredibly personal,” is the first project fully financed through their new venture with Media One for micro-budget films “in the spirit of ‘Moonlight’ and ‘Minari.'”
Navigating Studios and Streamers
Despite the industry’s pivot toward franchise films, Plan B has maintained strong relationships with major studios, producing original, director-driven films within the system.
“If you’re given that privilege, you should spend it on people who and stories that wouldn’t get made otherwise inside the system,” Gardner says. “If someone gives you money to play with, you better play well.”
This philosophy has allowed them to champion distinctive voices within studio structures. Even for a film like “Mickey 17,” Gardner notes that Warner Brothers supported their vision, though not without some initial trepidation: “You have a conversation after the first week of dailies, like, ‘Wait, is this what we’re doing?’ And you just have to double down and say, ‘Yeah, we are, and we promise it’s gonna be okay.'”
The Long Game
When asked about the importance of box office success, Gardner recalls a pivotal conversation with Brad Pitt early in her tenure at Plan B. After the commercial disappointments of “A Mighty Heart” and “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” in the same year, Pitt told her: “Movies have a shelf life. They have a really long shelf life, and that’s what we’re playing for.”
“We didn’t find the formative films of our lives necessarily in theatres,” Gardner reflects. “We found them in our basements and on television and in museums and in second-run theatres.”
This long-term perspective has proven prescient. “Even though nobody went to see ‘Jesse James,’ that movie is cited more often by filmmakers even today as a movie that was really essential to them and their journey through film than many others.”
Looking Ahead
As our conversation wraps up, Gardner mentions their upcoming “Formula One” project with Brad Pitt and Warner Brothers/Apple, which integrates fiction filmmaking with the actual sport in unprecedented ways.
“We embedded the cameras with F1,” she explains. “We had a garage on the pit lane… The sport was so welcoming, and it was this incredible integration of the movie people and the people racing.”
When asked if she’s considered relocating from the US given recent political developments, Gardner expresses her conflicted feelings. “There are days, especially recently, where you think, ‘This isn’t sustainable, what’s gonna happen, this seems completely nuts.’ And then there are other days where I think, ‘No, you can’t run, you have to actually stay here and be rigorous and keep pushing for story and also story that counteracts the erasure of history.'”
It’s a sentiment that encapsulates Plan B’s enduring mission: to produce films that not only entertain but endure, creating a cinematic legacy that transcends the moment. As Gardner puts it, referring to their films: “They’ll stay in history also.”
This interview took place at the 75th Berlin International Film Festival, where Plan B Entertainment was presenting “Mickey 17” and “Olmo.”
Editor in Chief of Ikon London Magazine, journalist, film producer and founder of The DAFTA Film Awards (The DAFTAs).
